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Old 11-28-2012, 06:43 PM   #1
anatine
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Default Jewdonk in heated battle for Micon's Business Acumen Crown

Tyde has turned tydepoker.com into a "multi-level-marketing" pyramid scheme site.

Hes hooked up with "empowernetwork.com", which are basically the literal bottom of the barrel internet SEO MLM sleaze bucket.

Its literally a vast (and I do mean vast) network of fake blogs, fake Facebook groups, fake Facebook profiles to populate those groups, it goes on and on. Its literally top 1% sketchiest bullshit on the internet, and our own Jewdonk is a proud member.

A third party summary of the new owners of tydepoker.com, EmpowerNetwork.com:

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Beware of the Empower Network Scam
Scams are like Energy.
They cannot be created or destroyed.
They just come back in different forms.

Today’s I’m going to discuss the Empower Network, a multi-level marketing company that takes the idea of “Pay me and I’ll help you sign-up 100 of your friends” to a new level.

Update: If you’re a member of E.N. network, please don’t talk to me like I’m a piece of shit. I encourage you to leave comments and leave feedback, but some of the personal e-mails I’ve received are just down right nasty! Several times throughout this post that you’re about to read, I mention that some of the information I’m sharing with you comes second hand. I invite Empower Network members to respond and tell me if I have my facts straight. I don’t know what else I can do to make this post more of a public forum for both sides of the debate. So with that being said, I’m through responding to comments on this post from E.N. members who are going to argue with me without actually reading this full post or the comments below it. Let’s make this a great public forum for discussion. Below you’ll read my opinion, feel free to share yours with my readers in a respectful, civil manner. Thank you.

Disclaimer: I have no product to sell you. At the end of this post I make an offer for you to sign up to my free newsletter where I teach you about affiliate marketing and Internet business. I am NOT using this post to bash Empower Network so I can sell you a product. I am a professional who is hired by businesses. I am not looking to make money from people on their bottom dollar who are looking for online opportunities.

Disclaimer 2: Yes, there are affiliate links on my website. That means if you click a link to a product that I endorse, I will earn a commission. Someone called me out in the comments section about having affiliate links as if I’m trying to hide that. If you aren’t familiar with what that means, I teach you about affiliate linking in my newsletter.

Disclaimer #2: I’ve gotten a lot of response from E.N. members saying that I am wrong about multi-level marketing companies. Wrong about what? I never say anything bad about MLM companies. In my opinion, Empower Network is an example of a MLM company I would NEVER get involved with. That’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. However, when you read this article, please don’t think I am bashing ALL MLM companies because that is not true. MLM is a very powerful business model. And in the words of Uncle Ben, “With great power comes great responsibility.”

Empower Network MLM Scheme

Like most of these multi-level marketing companies, the Empower Network’s approach is to lead you to believe that anyone can do it. Even people in worse, less employable situations than you. Look at the titles of some of their blog posts.

Empower Network Warning - Anyone Can't Do It!

I am part of a few Small Business Groups on Facebook and LinkedIn. The other day I received a message from a fake Facebook account who saw a post I made in one of the groups. The screenshot below is to a funny conversation I got into with the fictitious woman. Before reading this, know that I am kind of a sarcastic ***hole and was humoring her. I wanted to dig deeper into her bullshit.

Empower Network Scam

The woman has since blocked me and un-friended me. Before she did though, I examined her profile. I noticed that all her friends had 100-150 friends each, well below the Facebook average for real users. According to the Washington Post, the average Facebook user has 359 friends.

I also noticed the people on her profile who commented on her wedding picture said things like “I remember that day! I was there!” However, their profiles said they lived in France, Philippines, and Africa. In addition, all their job profiles said “Internet Marketing” or “Self Employed Affiliate Marketer”. They even went as far as tagging each other in a family photo on her wall! It seems like some of these Empower Network groups are going to a LOT of effort to fool the average person into thinking they are legit and credible.

During my conversation with “Amy Dennison”, I came across this article called Empower Network Scam or Legit? by Lis Sowerbutts. The article breaks down why she thinks Empower Network is a scam.

So they are selling what exactly? Precisely – they are in fact not just offering an over-priced scam. They are offering a pyramid scheme. A pyramid scheme is when what you buy has no value at all. You buy in because you want others to buy in on your “down line” and you get their payments.

It works for those at the top. The other 95% of members generally lose money.

That’s why pyramid schemes are illegal in most countries including the US, Canada, UK, Australia and most others.

After you submit your e-mail address, you’re brought to a 45 minute sales video with a countdown timer underneath it. You can’t buy this product until the timer reaches 0:00.

What is Empower Network?

Empower Network video screenshot

The real story behind Empower Network

During the final 15 minutes of the video, you are given the option to purchase.

Empower Network Your Chance To Buy

Empower Network Screenshots

I didn’t purchase, but was later sent this e-mail.

Empower Network Welcome E-mail

Further research led me to the following timeline of events that would happen. To be fair, I did not actually sign up for Empower Network so this information is coming second hand from other members.

What happens after you sign up for Empower Network?

1. You sign up for the $25/month plan which gives you access to Empower Network tools. Ultimately, these tools are a username and password to their WordPress login. You are buying a directory on their website. (ie: http://empowernetwork.com/yournamehere/)

2. You are encouraged to sign up for a Merchant Account, which is basically the ability to collect credit card information via the Internet. Empower Network is an affiliate for the merchant account and receives a commission for the processing fees. The money from your customers goes straight to you (versus Empower Network collecting the fee and giving you a percentage). You are, thus, receiving 100% commission (minus the $25/month membership and approximately $19/month merchant account + normal credit card processing fees). Update: Read the comments below this post and discover what members are saying about the “100% commission” and how it’s not really 100% at all. Apparently it’s like 100% of every third commission. Read the comments for a members description of the actual commission structure.

3. You solicit your friends and family to visit your website (http://empowernetwork.com/yournamehere) and also sign up for the $25/month recurring program. Update: I’ve gotten a lot of hell from E.N. members saying things like “No, we’re taught NOT to solicit our friends and family.” So let me update this section and instead say, You solicit strangers on Facebook….

4. Eventually you run out of personal connections to hit up, so you’re left wondering how you’re going to make $40,000 a month like “everyone else” seem to be making with the program. See the screenshot from the Income Report on the Empower Network website.

Empower Network Income Report

5. You’ve already invested this much time and energy into the program, but you aren’t seeing the results. What now? The Empower Network is here to save the day again! This time they offer you access to the Elite Inner Circle of the Empower Network, where they teach you how to generate traffic to your website and market your products so that you can also make unlimited amounts of money. The training they offer ranges in price from $150/month to $675 to $1500. If they don’t get you for all that up front, the process is repeated until you’ve reached your pain threshold.

That is basically how the Empower Network makes money. If I am wrong, please let me know in the comments section. Preferably I’d like to hear from some members of the Empower Network. If you don’t know that I’m wrong or right, please don’t tell me I’m wrong just to defend an emotional decision you already made to sign up for Empower Network. There’s already enough mis-leading information going around the Internet about this network and I’m not looking to add anymore to the comments section of my blog. Oh, and TRY and leave your affiliate link to Empower Network in my comments section. I dare you! Your affiliate link and comment will be removed faster than Amy Dennison blocked me on Facebook!

Is there any legitimate way to make money online?

The harsh truth is, there is no easy way to make money online with no education, no experience, and no technical skills. Making money online is EXTREMELY possible, but it takes a lot of work, trial and error, and know-how. Online businesses are the same as offline business. In order to be profitable, you need working systems, processes, and above all else a quality product or service.

I am currently writing an e-book which discusses the question, “How do I make money online?”. Below is a screenshot from my upcoming e-book.

How to make money online e-book

One of my inspirations for writing this e-book is how horrible I feel for folks who get involved in these online money-making programs. Often times, these folks are hard-working individuals who could use an easy fix to their financial troubles. Who couldn’t? They just don’t know any better. I’ve even seen a few friends and family members (extremely intelligent individuals) duped by online money making schemes. The goal of my e-book is to prevent situations like that from happening to you, my loyal readers.

If you’d like me to send you a copy of the book once it’s published, provide your name and e-mail address below. In the meantime, I’ll also subscribe you to my newsletter which is all about Internet marketing & e-commerce.

Afterward you provide your e-mail/name above, the e-mail management service I use called Aweber will send you an e-mail to confirm that you actually requested the book. This is to prevent spam (for you) and fake e-mail addresses (for me). When the book is available for download in a few months, you’ll be the first to know. I’m most likely going to charge for this book (it’s full of extremely valuable information) but I’ll send it to you for free.

What did you think of this blog post?

Questions? Comments? Have you been victim to online money making schemes?

I would love to see some comments from actual members of Empower Network. Do I have your program all wrong? Tell me otherwise.

Love,

Adventure PAUL

Update 11-19-2012: I’ll leave these comments open for the time being, but I can’t respond to them anymore. I’ve run out of time–I’m sorry. I wrote this post to help people. Now after all the negative comments I’ve received and hateful e-mails.. I just feel sad. Good luck everyone.
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I like to Teach You About The Internet & Web

This blog post is about affiliate marketing, e-commerce, scams

Al Lamp

I will happily accept your challenge og proving EN works.
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

Okay, Al Lamp.. if that’s what you would like to do. Are you going to blog the challenge so we can keep up?
Achilles d

nice work great post do you think there is any legitimate mlm on the internet ?
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

Yes, there are lots of legitimate MLM business models. Sign up for my newsletter if you haven’t already where I discuss a few. In that newsletter I talk a lot about finding opportunities in your own home. What products and services do you already use and already endorse? Chances are you’ll find that the products you use regularly have legitimate programs for you to. Good place to start. Good luck!
Chris

Been a month and no response from Al. Wonder what happened? LOL.
Jeff

Why are all the en employees so defensive? i was part of it for the 25 fee and yes i didn’t do a single thing but the reason is because the whole “were a family” “long live EN” it just don’t feel right almost like a cult i’ve seen the supporters comments and the non supporters, me personally i don’t really care, i lost 25 bucks all well, but the way they act when people ask if its a scam or not, its like your selling to me not giving me info, also why is every video Dave Woods does in costa rica? and why is every success story of people making money always start out sad with a illness or disability or some dude driving home to commit suicide? if you don’t believe me i still have all the emails, and now back to the family part. Its a job you really don’t know they people your working with personally unless you go to the events or meeting but who has the cash or time to up and drop everything to go? plus the only job i’ve ever had that was close to considering family was when i was when i was in the military and if you want proof or that ill show my DD-214 (discharge papers). i’m sure you can make money from this, but all im saying is be careful something just isn’t right with this, like the effect it has on people, and the way they get so worked up about it, almost if Dave said drink the kool-aid they would.
Kevin

I am a programmer and have been for years. I was approached to help create a internet marketing website for a potential client (to mimic other website’s back office). All of a sudden the conversation turned into a sales pitch to join EN. I studied Psychology in college and I have a tendency to read people when talking to them. The pitch of his voice and the fake excitement he had was quickly turned back into a low monotone when I told him that I wasn’t interested in trying to buy into his network and he then wasn’t as excited to talk about his project he wanted me to do. Although his sales pitch was different then the “sick in bed as I type and make thousands” story. He kept telling me he was on course to be a brain surgeon and decided the Empower Network was a much better option for him and now he’s making more money then he ever could as a brain surgeon. REALLY?! I giggled but had to stop myself before I started laughing too hard to talk.

Also … when I quoted him a price on a project … he then tells me he would rather have me join his network and get a cut of his commissions. Long story short … I will not waste my time writing up quotes for this person anymore. Scam artist.
Matthew

Well I have been watching some of the videos from EN some of the videos are very informative but I always had a gut feeling that it was just scams… Thanks for the heads up on this because I was seriously thinking about blowing $25 on this crap… ooh wee 100% commissions is what all the EN members say and when I began reading there comments on the blog they look so fake all they ever say is 100% nuf said…
What a bunch of retards.
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

Thanks for reading and contributing ,Matthew. I know what you mean about fake comments.. things like “This sounds great!” “I wasn’t sure at first, but thanks for the great info. This really is a legitimate thing!” haha. I wonder if things like this will make the history books.
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

Thank you for reading and commenting, Kevin. What an experience! I would have been upset too if someone intentionally wasted my time like that. Glad you were able to keep your cool–maybe the hilarity of the situation made it easier to deal with. “I was going to be a super cowboy space astronaut but I decided this was more for me!”
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

Great comment, Jeff. That feeling you’re describing.. that gut feeling that something isn’t right… it usually comes around for a reason, you know?

You’re right that it’s very possible to make money from EN, but like i mentioned to some other people, the fact that you can make money from something doesn’t distinguish between whether or not it is a scam! Most scams are designed for money anyway so that seems congruent.

Anyway, good luck to you Jeff. Thank you for reading and contributing to my site.
Stacey

Thanks for the great post. I applied for a writing position and then received an email asking me to watch the video and call them to discuss my blogging career. Five minutes into the video, I opened another tab and did a google search and found your article. i never considered joining but I do feel bad for others who could be taken in by it. .
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

You’re welcome, Stacey. Thanks for reading. I get a lot of crap from E.N. folks who want to prove me wrong but never quite do. So it’s nice to know that the article is appreciated by some. Good luck.
http://www.facebook.com/tawanna.gordon Tawanna Gordon

I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in here. I see where people could get the idea that any “entity” is a scam when they have very little information on the products they are “reviewing”. There is some misleading and flat-out incorrect information in this post. No one ever pays $675 or more per month to Empower Network. Also, if you haven’t been inside the actual training, then you are missing tons of information from top leaders of other companies that trains network marketers to market any kind of business on the internet…. not just Empower Network. I have a college degree that I paid 40k for and all I ended up with was a job that consumed my whole life. I learned more in the training of Empower Network about marketing than I did in my whole 6 years of college so that if Empower Network vanished into the sea this minute, I would still be able to use those skills to market any network marketing company I chose.

My feeling is, if you are going to “bash” a company and discredit it to the point that many will think it’s illegal, a scam or impossible to earn from, you might want to have some detailed information about the company and not just a couple of screen shots of the “entry process”. Your details are limited and in some cases completely inaccurate and that is a dangerous arena legally. Empower Network could literally sue you for monetary damages for this libelous post as it clearly shows numerous people who have taken your words for reality and was a deciding factor in their not joining.

I would be careful if I were you when using another company to market your own. It always makes your offers look just as shady as the ones you’re accusing of “shadiness”. Ever heard it said that, “While you are pointing one finger at someone else, there are three pointing back at you.” ?
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

Thanks for the comment Tawanna. Forgive the brevity of my reply but I’ve already had to respond to what you said several times. I think this will be the last time I do.

1. I say in the post that this information comes second hand and that I never joined. Then I open the discussion to E.N. members to tell me otherwise. The reviews and comments from folks who signed up for E.N. speak for themselves. I haven’t moderated a comment yet.. I let everyone leave their thoughts regardless of which side of the fence you’re on.

2. I’ve also learned more about marketing since college through self-education. That is not unusual to learn more “in the real world” than by doing school projects. i don’t doubt that E.N. teaches information that is valuable, but I don’t believe in the way they do it.

3. I never said that it’s impossible to earn from E.N. Just because you can make money from something doesn’t mean you should do it. My recommendation is to NOT get involved in E.N. and I stand by that.

4. I never said that E.N. is illegal.

5. I don’t use this article to sell anything. I have a free newsletter where I write articles about affiliate marketing and Internet business. I am a professional who is hired by businesses for my services. The intention of this article is to break down the reality of what E.N. is offering, not to make money from the Average Joe who is struggling to make ends meat.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thanks for sharing yours and good luck with your online ventures.

AP
http://twitter.com/wanfirdaus Wan Firdaus™

Well3 :-P
http://www.facebook.com/TroyJPringle Troy Joseph Pringle

You HAVE TO SEE this. http://www.squidoo.com/empower-network-scams
Kevin A*****na

I fully agree with you on that particular person’s marketing ploy. There is no ethical behavior whatsoever. Nobody should try and force a sale to someone who has no interest in the first place and should not use the blind throw, hit and hope it sticks to the wall attitude.
Not only it is a wasteful and draining type of energy but it sucks too!

Unfortunately that does not mean Empower Network is a scam. It ONLY means that someone is desperate to make money at all costs… and certainly has not tried implementing the professional marketing training offered in the backoffice of E.N. training.

On the comment of this person and his brain surgeon theory… please don’t even get me started. Certainly not with such a poor attitude as you have described. No offense, but it is the truth.
All I can say is that “YES” you can make as much or even more money compared to a brain surgeon because of the leverage structure of the internet….. but that does not mean:
(1) It is easy without any initial hard work and good strategies in place.
(2) Everyone is guaranteed to make money from E.N or any Make Money Online System.

Assuming a brain surgeon has 24 hrs in a given day (like the rest of us), even if they earn thousands on each operation, the questions you should ask are:
“How many operations can they legally perform in a year?”

“Is overtime even an option in this scenario?” (meaning more operations)
“Can an operation be performed without their presence through a less qualified colleague?”

Don’t get me wrong I am not bashing on anyone’s toes here. I’m only saying that there is no leverage in this type of manual work.

Any type of manual work – not just a brain surgeon is limited by the number of hours they contribute to.

Granted certain professions are highly paid accordingly, as they should.
Even in cases where overtime is possible, you are still limited by the max. labor input and the time factor, whereas the internet is nothing more than a digital tool which can be transformed into a system that has no limits once set up accordingly.
Systems exist in the offline world too. Take some franchises for example.
Why does a McDonalds franchise mega bucks as a start-up (probably millions).
Answer: because it is a proven system, and in the right hands will generate great revenue. It is designed to operate from anywhere in the world (have you ever seen McDonalds outside the States?) with the same output product which should taste exactly the same from any McDonald franchise.
The leverage points in this system are that it is a complete step-by-step process where anyone following the simple and fast training will create the same tasting burgers and is designed to employ anyone who simply knows how to read and write (literate) and follow simple step-by-step instructions (coach-able). That is why you will find so many teenagers working there part time in the kitchen.
The system can be leveraged as much as the infrastructure (building space) allows with additional investment like more friers and more workers.

Back to our E.N. discussion…
“Is it possible to earn huge income potentials?”
Certainly Yes, if you do it right.

“Is this a guarantee?”
C’mon.

There is no business guarantee in any type of entrepreneurship. Period.
That is why these type of businesses are not for everyone!

The same goes to any highly educated degree/PhD qualification. It is not for everyone but unfortunately in most cases you are still being paid (read as underpaid) and treated like an employee, whatever your position.

This is because the business firm you work or operate in needs to make a decent profit from you in order to pay your wage (hourly rate)!

Do not forget that any administrative costs associated with running that business have to come from the labor work too!

Employee vs an Entrepreneurship are totally different leagues which should not start out with the question of “how much can I make?” but rather “is this the right fit for me?”

Answering those questions incorrectly you will be in for great surprises…. and that is a proven and tested guarantee from previous failures.

Hope you found this reply (or should I say article) of great educational value.
Kevin A*****na

Oops!!!

I discovered an affiliate link here in Aweber.

[http://adventurepaul.aweber . com]

Is this affiliate link yours?

Are you trying to hide anything from us or monetize us?
Are you sure your newsletter is totally free – without any affiliate links embedded?

Sorry for bashing you. Nothing wrong with that, but I am treating you the same way you aired your opinion (which looked more like an accusation from what I have read. It seems I’m not the only one too.)

Bottom line: “Treat others the same way you would like to be treated” and another friendly advice is that you will probably benefit immensely from the E.N. Inner Circle training (at $100/month) and I am not even including my affiliate link.

Is this a genuine proposition, or what?

Best of luck and wish you my sincere blessing.

Regards,
K.A. – Empower Network user and active affiliate
Michelle

I keep getting emails from one of the “top earners” who is making over $30,000 a month….funny thing is, I’ve been on his email list for over 2 years and he has supposedly been financially free…but he is now saying he could barely make his rent payments six months ago until EN. so I googled “empower network is a scam” and your article came up first. I appreciate this article and even though I just “met you” I trust you a lot more than this other guy. Thank you for your forthrightness and honesty.
http://www.adventurepaul.com AdventurePaul

You’re welcome, Michelle. That’s a funny story you told about the EN guy–what a red flag!

Happy holidays!

PAUL




Last Updated: Tuesday, November 27th, 2012

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Old 11-28-2012, 07:14 PM   #2
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:15 PM   #3
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you can just fuck right off with them words and shit, you're ruining the experience for our mobile users and harshing the vibe we've got going for the tyde farewell tour
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:35 PM   #4
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BigDMcgee hates skatz, wants nothing to do with the forum.

Tapper hates skatz, is avoiding it like the plague.

Scooter, so far as I can tell, pretty much hates skatz and grows more resentful and bitter at how things have turned out by the hour.

Jewdonk hates skatz, is avoiding it like the plague.

408Mike hates skatz, but refuses to give up hope...

Steerpike hates skatz, wants almost nothing to do with the forum.

NextLevelHoser hates skatz, only drops by to read Scooter's Brilliance and chit chat with 408.

Cup more or less hates skatz, so far as I know. When I pointed out the problem of your ill treatment for him and called you out for disrespecting his value to the site as a poster, you ignored me and left him out in the cold. You chose instead to shower another with love and affection if he would but wipe his own ass and think of a great youtube video of a fat man eating things as the perfect post for literally every single possible topic ever discussed amongst human beings literally ever.

Behemoth hates skatz, refuses to be associated with the site. When he tried making a comeback, you banned him for the effort.

The once great poster I remember, a person who goes by the name Bob at times, has been reduced to an actual real life fucking toddler in a grown man's body. I presume you chose sides and sided with him over Scooter, a decision which I deplore immeasurably but it is your decision after all....

By all means though, let's all focus our energy on jewdonk and the idiotic decisions that he makes. His imbecilic life choices are for sure the most important topic for skatz members to concentrate on...maybe momma tire can put up a video of a man blending fish for cheap protein...

Sonatine, the man with the highest IQ here and easily the most accomplished communicator I have ever interacted with, has nothing more to talk about right now than how much he hates waking up at 9am, how much he loves his old new best friend who is basically a mime, and Jewdonk and his failsite folks....

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Old 11-28-2012, 09:27 PM   #5
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:32 PM   #6
anatine
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Continuation of adventures
Of the battles between yachts
All began day after the storm,
That is how I met my frigate.

Let the guests of the sea
Know the might of the pirate.
That which rules the entire sea,
Such pirate is a true pirate.

Banging cannons, whistling case-shot
Battle suddenly begins.
Sound of metal, bullets and swords,
This is how a deathly battle goes.

Two frigates met
In a blueish hell of sea.
Our Pirate ship
Became your trouble.

Our Pirate ship
Became your trouble, your trouble
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:32 PM   #7
anatine
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Not Somalian
And not Caribbean
I am a Russian new pirate.
And not Brazilian,
And not Indian,
I am a Russian new pirate.
Yes that's who I am, I am a new pirate.

It appeared to us from the sea
Suddenly, a sea monster,
To our ship it gripped
A giant octopus.

It threw everyone off board
And sawed off our anchor
So the frigate fell apart
And sank all the way to the bottom.

But our crew was alright,
And got to a nearby island
Where they built a new ship,
Much stronger and faster.

And so we set out to sea
And found that octopus
Shot him up with our cannons,
Till there was nothing left but bones.

Comments
  
  octopodes dont have bones dumbazz
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:33 PM   #8
anatine
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On the internet, quite like the sea,
We are rocked, and we rock
#[translators note: rock = load, so hes saying that "we get rocked by waves, we rock the waves" which has the double meaning of "they download us, we download too", an allusion to computer piracy]
And download our rights
To ships without decks.

If you wrote something
or you came up with something,
Your intellectual property
You hold it in your arms.

Similar to the tentacles of octopus
Your IP rights are being strangled.
[You are] So called, like on the sea
An intruder - a pirate.

Pirates, just like citizens
Follow their rules,
Nobody will be laughing
If they get punished.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:58 AM   #9
Bobby Wong
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3 days for confusing jim about what is and is not true
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:07 AM   #10
cup
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Cup more or less hates skatz, so far as I know. When I pointed out the problem of your ill treatment for him and called you out for disrespecting his value to the site as a poster, you ignored me and left him out in the cold. You chose instead to shower another with love and affection if he would but wipe his own ass and think of a great youtube video of a fat man eating things as the perfect post for literally every single possible topic ever discussed amongst human beings literally ever.


^^^wtf. Skatz is impossible for me to hate.
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